Comments on: How Green is The Cloud? http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/ An industry analyst blog looking at software ecosystems and convergence Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:35:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dave Johnson http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-514235 Dave Johnson Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:34:07 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-514235 James there has got to be some implications for pricing of cloud computing as we move to a low carbon economy as well - I think that cloud providers will likely become energy traders. I wrote up some initial thoughts on the subject a few months back: <a href="http://nullisnotanobject.com/2008/11/cloud-computing-smart-grids-smart-clouds/" rel="nofollow">http://nullisnotanobject.com/2008/11/cloud-computing-smart-grids-smart-clouds/</a> James there has got to be some implications for pricing of cloud computing as we move to a low carbon economy as well – I think that cloud providers will likely become energy traders. I wrote up some initial thoughts on the subject a few months back: http://nullisnotanobject.com/2008/11/cloud-computing-smart-grids-smart-clouds/

]]> By: Ludovic http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-513374 Ludovic Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:06:32 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-513374 James, Interesting post... There would be much to say indeed on: - the footprint of using commodity hardware at low utilisation % and with low recycling rates - The benefits of dematerialisation James,

Interesting post… There would be much to say indeed on:
- the footprint of using commodity hardware at low utilisation % and with low recycling rates
- The benefits of dematerialisation

]]> By: mayadeniz http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-535186 mayadeniz Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:54:54 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-535186 <p>I think I understand your concern. I’d certainly not make a donation just because a company is claiming to do something good.<br /> From my perspective, it does not pay to assign human characteristics to companies and expect them to be altruistic. They are created to make money.<br /> Consider this scenario: A manufacturer makes a product and can choose the cheapest material, and there is an alternative material that is cleaner, better for environment but also more expensive. If the product manager can argue that cost may increase somewhat but it would also allow the company have some green cred, he has a shot at convincing his management, otherwise it is a much harder. This is not altruistic behavior but better for everyone regardless.</p> <p>By creating a culture that values being “green”, we’re giving the companies the an incentive to make the right decision. So I say let them make a case to the public why/how they are becoming greener. If it is BS, let’s call them on it, but let’s not dismiss it if they are becoming green because it is good business for them.</p> <p>Just my 1.23 cents ..</p> <p>Berkay<br /> <a href="http://www.mberkay.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mberkay.com</a></p> <p><i>This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/preposterous-stories-make-for-good-bs-indicators/#comment-2399" rel="nofollow" title="“Preposterous Stories Make for Good BS Indicators” (http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/)">SmoothSpan Blog</a></i></p> I think I understand your concern. I’d certainly not make a donation just because a company is claiming to do something good.
From my perspective, it does not pay to assign human characteristics to companies and expect them to be altruistic. They are created to make money.
Consider this scenario: A manufacturer makes a product and can choose the cheapest material, and there is an alternative material that is cleaner, better for environment but also more expensive. If the product manager can argue that cost may increase somewhat but it would also allow the company have some green cred, he has a shot at convincing his management, otherwise it is a much harder. This is not altruistic behavior but better for everyone regardless.

By creating a culture that values being “green”, we’re giving the companies the an incentive to make the right decision. So I say let them make a case to the public why/how they are becoming greener. If it is BS, let’s call them on it, but let’s not dismiss it if they are becoming green because it is good business for them.

Just my 1.23 cents ..

Berkay
http://www.mberkay.com

This comment was originally posted on http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/)”>SmoothSpan Blog

]]> By: smoothspan http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-535185 smoothspan Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:27:44 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-535185 <p>My problem, Berkay, is that if they just did good for some short term gain, and not because they really want to do good, how do you know they won’t cut corners in some other way, ultimately not doing good? How do you know the donation you’re making when you buy a bottle of their water really gets to the people intended? How do you know the bottling process doesn’t create a whole host of other problems because the organization doesn’t really care about doing good, they only care about the appearance of doing good?</p> <p>BW</p> <p><i>This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/preposterous-stories-make-for-good-bs-indicators/#comment-2398" rel="nofollow" title="“Preposterous Stories Make for Good BS Indicators” (http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/)">SmoothSpan Blog</a></i></p> My problem, Berkay, is that if they just did good for some short term gain, and not because they really want to do good, how do you know they won’t cut corners in some other way, ultimately not doing good? How do you know the donation you’re making when you buy a bottle of their water really gets to the people intended? How do you know the bottling process doesn’t create a whole host of other problems because the organization doesn’t really care about doing good, they only care about the appearance of doing good?

BW

This comment was originally posted on http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/)”>SmoothSpan Blog

]]> By: mayadeniz http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-535184 mayadeniz Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:48:08 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-535184 <p>“They’re simply doing good so that they will do well themselves. That isn’t doing good, is it?”<br /> Why the hell not? Why should we set such a high standard that only if you don’t benefit an act can be considered good?<br /> There is nothing wrong with companies seeing a benefit to “becoming green”, as long as they are not cheating. Expecting companies to be altruistic is not realistic. If we want the companies to be “good”, we need to encourage act of being good by rewarding it, not the other way around. </p> <p>Berkay</p> <p><i>This comment was originally posted on <a href="http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/preposterous-stories-make-for-good-bs-indicators/#comment-2397" rel="nofollow" title="“Preposterous Stories Make for Good BS Indicators” (http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/)">SmoothSpan Blog</a></i></p> “They’re simply doing good so that they will do well themselves. That isn’t doing good, is it?”
Why the hell not? Why should we set such a high standard that only if you don’t benefit an act can be considered good?
There is nothing wrong with companies seeing a benefit to “becoming green”, as long as they are not cheating. Expecting companies to be altruistic is not realistic. If we want the companies to be “good”, we need to encourage act of being good by rewarding it, not the other way around.

Berkay

This comment was originally posted on http://smoothspan.wordpress.com/)”>SmoothSpan Blog

]]> By: Preposterous Stories Make for Good BS Indicators « SmoothSpan Blog http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-513188 Preposterous Stories Make for Good BS Indicators « SmoothSpan Blog Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:56:18 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-513188 [...] Governor, “How Green is the Cloud?”:  James cuts to the heart of the matter, which is that a lot of entities want to use the Green Banner [...] [...] Governor, “How Green is the Cloud?”:  James cuts to the heart of the matter, which is that a lot of entities want to use the Green Banner [...]

]]> By: James Governor http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-513148 James Governor Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:14:50 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-513148 very interesting alan. at the moment it seems like everyone else is taking heat, but Google doth seem to protest rather more than I would expect. very interesting alan. at the moment it seems like everyone else is taking heat, but Google doth seem to protest rather more than I would expect.

]]> By: alan p http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2009/01/12/how-green-is-the-cloud/comment-page-1/#comment-513009 alan p Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:04:23 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/?p=1787#comment-513009 James - left this on Greenmonk as well - a bit of top-level analysis I did on my blog using kWh, which are less, umm, “flexible” than CO” grams. The Times article gives Google the energy needs of a 500,000 person city, the Google figures give the energy needs of a village. Google’s infrastructure is far closer in scale to that required by a moderate sized city than a village. So, if not search, something is eating up all the power. (See here http://broadstuff.com/archives/1494-Google-searching-not-eco-friendly.html) James – left this on Greenmonk as well – a bit of top-level analysis I did on my blog using kWh, which are less, umm, “flexible” than CO” grams. The Times article gives Google the energy needs of a 500,000 person city, the Google figures give the energy needs of a village.

Google’s infrastructure is far closer in scale to that required by a moderate sized city than a village. So, if not search, something is eating up all the power.

(See here http://broadstuff.com/archives/1494-Google-searching-not-eco-friendly.html)

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