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	<title>Comments on: On douchebags, DB2 and Rails: DHH not pragmatic enough?</title>
	<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/</link>
	<description>An industry analyst blog looking at software ecosystems and convergence</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: On Rails and DB2 &#124; Zen and the Art of Ruby Programming</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-318556</link>
		<dc:creator>On Rails and DB2 &#124; Zen and the Art of Ruby Programming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-318556</guid>
		<description>[...] Governor wrote an interesting post entitled &#8220;On douchebags, DB2 and Rails: DHH not pragmatic enough?&#8221;. It&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Governor wrote an interesting post entitled &#8220;On douchebags, DB2 and Rails: DHH not pragmatic enough?&#8221;. It&#8217;s [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gunderloy</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-318354</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gunderloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-318354</guid>
		<description>And here I thought I was writing a cogent comment. Next time, more coffee first. Sorry for the redundant redundancy.

Rafe, have you looked at Pragmatic's "Deploying Rails Applications" book (just emerging from beta, I think)? It does a pretty good job of pulling together a lot of deployment &#38; monitoring knowledge that has been too widespread to find easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I thought I was writing a cogent comment. Next time, more coffee first. Sorry for the redundant redundancy.</p>
<p>Rafe, have you looked at Pragmatic&#8217;s &#8220;Deploying Rails Applications&#8221; book (just emerging from beta, I think)? It does a pretty good job of pulling together a lot of deployment &amp; monitoring knowledge that has been too widespread to find easily.</p>
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		<title>By: More on Operating Systems, Choices, and on and on&#8230; &#171; decreased_sales</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-318314</link>
		<dc:creator>More on Operating Systems, Choices, and on and on&#8230; &#171; decreased_sales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-318314</guid>
		<description>[...] at Red Monk, James Governor&#8217;s response to Atwood&#8217;s rant deepened my thoughts by pointing out how design choices reflect [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] at Red Monk, James Governor&#8217;s response to Atwood&#8217;s rant deepened my thoughts by pointing out how design choices reflect [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Rafe Coburn</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317857</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe Coburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317857</guid>
		<description>My issues with Rails don't have to do with configuration but rather with getting an application deployed and running painlessly over time.

Rails apps are easy to write and maintain, but they can be a big pain when you get them out on the server.  It seems like my Rails apps are always gobbling up too much memory, or causing the load average on the server to spike, and so on. And it seems like there's very little guidance out there for people who want to keep that from happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My issues with Rails don&#8217;t have to do with configuration but rather with getting an application deployed and running painlessly over time.</p>
<p>Rails apps are easy to write and maintain, but they can be a big pain when you get them out on the server.  It seems like my Rails apps are always gobbling up too much memory, or causing the load average on the server to spike, and so on. And it seems like there&#8217;s very little guidance out there for people who want to keep that from happening.</p>
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		<title>By: jgovernor</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317855</link>
		<dc:creator>jgovernor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317855</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mike - that makes a great deal of sense. Re DB2onRails - look at it? look at it? I *linked to it*. :-)

Your point about extensibility is right on. Take shared hosting for example. As I understand it DHH is happy to see someone tackle the problem- but the core group doesn't see that as an immediate requirement...
http://www.loudthinking.com/posts/21-the-deal-with-shared-hosts</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mike - that makes a great deal of sense. Re DB2onRails - look at it? look at it? I *linked to it*. <img src='http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Your point about extensibility is right on. Take shared hosting for example. As I understand it DHH is happy to see someone tackle the problem- but the core group doesn&#8217;t see that as an immediate requirement&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.loudthinking.com/posts/21-the-deal-with-shared-hosts" rel="nofollow">http://www.loudthinking.com/posts/21-the-deal-with-shared-hosts</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Gunderloy</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317854</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Gunderloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317854</guid>
		<description>I think Rails current opinionation over databases comes in dividing databases into two classes, not in anointing one special database. Although sqlite is the default database for Rails 2.0, the distribution also includes first-class support for MySQL and PostgreSQL; switching from one to another of those in a Rails application that follows "the Rails way" is pretty trivial.

Beyond that, there are ActiveRecord adapters for DB2, SQL Server, and Oracle that are maintained as part of the main ActiveRecord source tree, which puts them into the category of officially supported databases that aren't in every Rails project by default. It seems to me that the line has been drawn so that if you want "enterprise" database support you have to go hunt for it - on the grounds that (a) most Rails applications won't need this and (b) Rails has its sweet spot somewhat below the application size where those databases are most usually found.

Beyond that, of course, since the ActiveRecord code is open source, various people have extended it with additional database support or additional functionality. The ActiveWarehouse project, for example, adds support for data warehousing across several different databases.

Finally, you might want to take a look at http://db2onrails.com/ .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Rails current opinionation over databases comes in dividing databases into two classes, not in anointing one special database. Although sqlite is the default database for Rails 2.0, the distribution also includes first-class support for MySQL and PostgreSQL; switching from one to another of those in a Rails application that follows &#8220;the Rails way&#8221; is pretty trivial.</p>
<p>Beyond that, there are ActiveRecord adapters for DB2, SQL Server, and Oracle that are maintained as part of the main ActiveRecord source tree, which puts them into the category of officially supported databases that aren&#8217;t in every Rails project by default. It seems to me that the line has been drawn so that if you want &#8220;enterprise&#8221; database support you have to go hunt for it - on the grounds that (a) most Rails applications won&#8217;t need this and (b) Rails has its sweet spot somewhat below the application size where those databases are most usually found.</p>
<p>Beyond that, of course, since the ActiveRecord code is open source, various people have extended it with additional database support or additional functionality. The ActiveWarehouse project, for example, adds support for data warehousing across several different databases.</p>
<p>Finally, you might want to take a look at <a href="http://db2onrails.com/" rel="nofollow">http://db2onrails.com/</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: jgovernor</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317847</link>
		<dc:creator>jgovernor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317847</guid>
		<description>actually Rafe that's pure ignorance on my part. i admit that I thought MySQL was the default target. All the Rails developers I know use MySQL. That does rather answer my abstraction question... 

If nothing else this post clarifies that. Once i get slammed a few times I will correct the body of the post. 

perhaps tongue in cheek in the sense of a reductio ad absurdam - but no, i admit to ignorance. 

douchebag is an overused term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually Rafe that&#8217;s pure ignorance on my part. i admit that I thought MySQL was the default target. All the Rails developers I know use MySQL. That does rather answer my abstraction question&#8230; </p>
<p>If nothing else this post clarifies that. Once i get slammed a few times I will correct the body of the post. </p>
<p>perhaps tongue in cheek in the sense of a reductio ad absurdam - but no, i admit to ignorance. </p>
<p>douchebag is an overused term.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Patterson</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317845</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317845</guid>
		<description>Interesting riff about constraints and creativity. I've often thought about the blues in this way - a whole genre of great music derived from a simple chord sequence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting riff about constraints and creativity. I&#8217;ve often thought about the blues in this way - a whole genre of great music derived from a simple chord sequence.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafe</title>
		<link>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317829</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/2008/02/28/on-douchebags-db2-and-rails-dhh-not-pragmatic-enough/#comment-317829</guid>
		<description>Two things: 

One, Rails now targets sqlite by default. (I know your MySQL but was tongue in cheek, but still.)

And two, doesn't starting a flame war with someone over a post from their blog that's a couple of years old make Atwood a douchebag as well?  That's sort of like getting insulted at a party and calling the person back a week later with a brilliant riposte that occurs to you in the shower. Timeliness counts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things: </p>
<p>One, Rails now targets sqlite by default. (I know your MySQL but was tongue in cheek, but still.)</p>
<p>And two, doesn&#8217;t starting a flame war with someone over a post from their blog that&#8217;s a couple of years old make Atwood a douchebag as well?  That&#8217;s sort of like getting insulted at a party and calling the person back a week later with a brilliant riposte that occurs to you in the shower. Timeliness counts.</p>
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