Comments on: Daryl Plummer Admits Mistake on Web Services and SOA

By: Tim Matthews

Tim Matthews — Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:14:12 +0000

Funny, I’m reading this blog entry the last week of March, but I now am recalling a conversation I had with a customer just around the March 10 timeframe. I got an earful from this guy on how “braindead” the WSDL model is. Wonder if he reads your blog.

Then just last week I met an architect at a large NY bank who said he could care less about SOAP, all he wanted was XML over HTTP - this, BTW, is the “architecture” for a huge derivatives trading application, so serious coin is at stake.

So after all the engineering time we spent on making SOAP/WSDL/UDDI seamless and painless in our product, our customers are asking for something we’ve had now for years: POX over HTTP Views.

By: Ed Dodds

Ed Dodds — Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:37:17 +0000

I get Vinnie’s point about using English (althought it is too late in America for a biz exec or CIO not to be “datarate” (eg literate in the use of data and its frameworks).

The reason they don’t adopt, however, is the same reason they are slow on xbrl. Apparently the asuumption is that corruption (financial not data) is required for profitability and no exec wants to hand over data source access without the opportunity to review for evidence of prior bad acts (think Enron, people). This, of course, is difficult whe one is iddatarate and so requires either the buying of one data analyst and/or the whacking thereof (sorry, just saw a sopranos commercial This eventually discourages new hires down in the data mines…

By: Simon Phipps

Simon Phipps — Sun, 12 Mar 2006 04:44:34 +0000

So good to hear Darryl say this, especially as I regard him as the reason “Web Services” are called web services. I remember in late 2000 sitting listening to him tell Ann Manes that she was wrong about “Service Oriented Architectures” and that anyone who didn’t buy in to web services was by definition “marking themselves out of the quadrant”.

By: James

James — Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:24:09 +0000

Could Mr. Plummer’s transparency become infectious on other Gartner analysts…

By: Mark Baker

Mark Baker — Sat, 11 Mar 2006 03:58:47 +0000

Final, some sanity. It blew away that an analyst would be the first to admit this though. I figured for sure it would come bottom up from some Web services architect at a vendor.

By: Patrick Mueller

Patrick Mueller — Sat, 11 Mar 2006 00:12:28 +0000

I agree with this statement of Daryl’s : “Beware of using an enterprise approach to deliver new Web functionality, for example, because it will lead to much less flexibility.”

But I disagree with this one: “And, don’t even think about trying to use new Web techniques to run that airline reservation system.”

Or maybe I’m not reading between the lines well. An airline reservation system running over the web could certainly make use of ‘new web techniques’ in the client’s ui, while at the same time having it’s core implementation in the glass house use an enterprise approach. The proper solution might well be a mix of the two.

But, furthermore, there’s no reason why, if by “enterprise technques” he’s talking about service-to-service calls, that theses couldn’t also be done in REST instead of WSDL. That’s an implementation call. What’s clear is that WSDL will never be a suitable answer for the web ui, and at least it’s good to see folks at least realizing that.

By: Elizabeth Book's Integration Watch

Elizabeth Book's Integration Watch — Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:19:06 +0000

Daryl Plummer on SOA Web Services Polarization

Gartner’s Daryl Plummer came out with a piece in Optimize about SOA’s users movement into two main camps: “One group advocates using Web services to build complex internal systems known as enterprise service-oriented architectures (SOAs). The other see…

By: vinnie mirchandani

vinnie mirchandani — Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:13:17 +0000

Daryl is a great guy. I was supposed to move to Atlanta and be in the same office and would have learned a lot. I never moved and worked remotely through my tenure at Gartner.

Having said that, reading all the jargon you have is the reason why SOA scares the crap out of so many CIOs and business execs. That plus projections that SOA related prof services will cost companies $ 500 billion in the next 5 years.

IBm is planning to packages bits and pieces of 13 Websphere and Tivoli products as part of SOA?

Let us know when SOA is ready for general deployment. In English. SOA not SOS.