Comments on: Eclipse Rich Client Platform: the next computing revolution

By: James Finch

James Finch — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:40:12 +0000

Henry Jacob (http://www.henryjacob.com) has a post called “Why Eclipse RCP is going to rule the world” and given 5 interesting reasons for that.

http://www.lakesidelab.com/henry/105.asp

By: James

James — Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:04:14 +0000

Henry Jacob (http://www.henryjacob.com) has a post called “Why Eclipse RCP is going to rule the world” and given 5 interesting reasons for that.

http://www.lakesidelab.com/henry/105.asp

By: Torsten Bergmann

Torsten Bergmann — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:20:56 +0000

I dont think Eclipse is a revolution – it only assembles good ideas mixed with good marketing. Nothing really new. It also helps Java developers finding more acceptance for their applications by providing a native look.

Even with nice tools Eclipse is still not the most powerfull tool since it’s weakest point is IMHO Java. Any Smalltalk IDE is much more flexible since it is based on pure objects not on files, static typing and static languages. Some examples:

Can I fix a bug in Eclipse itself while it is running without restarting or debugging from another eclipse session? Can I add a feature to the debugger even when there is no extension point defined – just since I have to fix it or want to include a tool I need for faster development?
Can I save the complete object environment (Object memory) in an image while debugging and continue debugging at exactly the same point the next day or on another computer?
Can I add a new control structure to the underlying language while the IDE is running and without changing the parser/scanner/compiler?

Can I script the whole environment like in a Smalltalk system where you can write:

TestCase allSubclasses do:
[:each | each removeFromSystem]

to get rid of all unit tests in the IDE for example? In Smalltalk I can use the same language to build and deploy my applications. There is no need for a different technology like Ant and remembering xml-tags/ant tasks. Anything is open, accessible and changable. Even the language itself is just assembled from objects.

I agree that Eclipse does a good job in providing a nice platform for RC applications, frameworks and tools. Nothing else.

Have a look at: http://www.opencroquet.org. Download and try it. I would call Croquet a revolution, but not Eclipse.

But as Alan Kay says:
“The Computer “Revolution” Hasn’t Happened Yet!”
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay)

By: Mike Milinkovich

Mike Milinkovich — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 23:13:05 +0000

And look at http://alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/ide4laszlo/ where it mentions that the Laszlo tools are Eclipse-based

Also see http://news.com.com/Macromedia+aligns+with+Eclipse/2100-1032_3-5730781.html?tag=nefd.top where Macromedia announces their plans to build their “…”next-generation rich Internet application development tool,” code-named Zorn, based on Eclipse”.

I would not characterize Eclipse as competing with RIA….we work there also.

By: Allen

Allen — Sat, 04 Jun 2005 05:38:32 +0000

Look at Lazslo http://www.openlaszlo.org/ Like AJAX but it depends on Flash. Intriguing demos.

By: Ian Skerrett

Ian Skerrett — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 02:53:00 +0000

James, I would love to reach out to the REST and AJAX crowd. Having someone start a REST and/or AJAX project would be pretty cool.

By: Dan Sholler

Dan Sholler — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:11:07 +0000

thanks for thinking of me, James.. I will follow up with Ian right away.

By: neilwd

neilwd — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:33:19 +0000

Jimbo, be careful with this one. What’s revolution in your mind? A lot of what you talk about is evolution – of ideas (or memes, if you prefer) that have been around for a long time and which are merely being re-implemented in new ways.

Can you seriously contend that all significant computing evolutions are tightly coupled to UI evolutions? There may be loose association because invention in one area can lead to new UI ideas – but it’s not as simple as you suggest. What about relational DBMSs? PKI? XML? Distributed transaction processing monitors? Pub sub event based middleware? I could go on.

Also don’t fixate too much on Eclipse and Microsoft in the RCP game. Flash has some decent offline persistent storage capability too, and good sync capability. Via MX and Flex it can also be a RCP for enterprise apps and data. It’s increasingly available on phones. And check out http://www.sap.com/company/press/press.epx?PressID=4519 to see what’s starting to happen.