Comments on: The Smells of Agile http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/ One foot in the muck, the other in utopia Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:02:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Kelly Waters http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-26328 Kelly Waters Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:31:22 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-26328 Love the concept of 'smells' for principles... I wrote a similar post on my blog "all about agile" and picked out different principles that I think really characterise an agile project over another. And I did get to 10 :-) For my "10 Key Principles of Agile Software Development", see here... http://kw-agiledevelopment.blogspot.com/2007/02/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-agile.html Kelly Waters http://www.allaboutagile.com Love the concept of ’smells’ for principles…

I wrote a similar post on my blog “all about agile” and picked out different principles that I think really characterise an agile project over another. And I did get to 10 :-)

For my “10 Key Principles of Agile Software Development”, see here…

http://kw-agiledevelopment.blogspot.com/2007/02/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-agile.html

Kelly Waters
http://www.allaboutagile.com

]]> By: cote http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-7308 cote Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:21:47 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-7308 Indeed, that's the line -- or a variant of it -- that I'm referencing looking for. Explaining it is what takes some effort, thought it seems to make intuitive sense to me. I think it's best to find an analogy: maybe selling stock or other investments. That is, doing something at the right time rather than doing it too early just for the sake of "getting it done"...? Indeed, that’s the line — or a variant of it — that I’m referencing looking for. Explaining it is what takes some effort, thought it seems to make intuitive sense to me. I think it’s best to find an analogy: maybe selling stock or other investments. That is, doing something at the right time rather than doing it too early just for the sake of “getting it done”…?

]]> By: Scott Vlaminck http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-7266 Scott Vlaminck Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:35:35 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-7266 In addition to reading over the relevant sections of Mary and Tom Poppenendieck's book, I would recommend checking out an earlier, related article available on their website about Lean Development: http://www.poppendieck.com/lean.htm Specifically, take a look at Lean Rule #4: Pull from Demand (Decide as Late as Possible) - sorry, no anchor link. My favorite line from the section is the last one: "the ability to make decisions as late as possible provides a competitive advantage." In addition to reading over the relevant sections of Mary and Tom Poppenendieck’s book, I would recommend checking out an earlier, related article available on their website about Lean Development: http://www.poppendieck.com/lean.htm

Specifically, take a look at Lean Rule #4: Pull from Demand (Decide as Late as Possible) - sorry, no anchor link.

My favorite line from the section is the last one: “the ability to make decisions as late as possible provides a competitive advantage.”

]]> By: james governor http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-666 james governor Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:33:10 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-666 further thoughts on design decisions and finalisation... <a href="http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2006-12-11/What_s_goo" rel="nofollow">http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2006-12-11/What_s_goo</a> further thoughts on design decisions and finalisation…

http://copia.ogbuji.net/blog/2006-12-11/What_s_goo

]]> By: james governor http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-665 james governor Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:56:14 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-665 oh yes - try reading the doc. i bet you'll be able to help us nail the language so the point works, even for a useability expert oh yes - try reading the doc. i bet you’ll be able to help us nail the language so the point works, even for a useability expert

]]> By: james governor http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-664 james governor Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:43:05 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-664 nope. cote i think you got it right, its just that the point is counterintuitive. the fact is requirements will change- which is why you want just in time decision-making. you don't make a bunch of decisions and expect them to be set in stone. compare and contrast Longhorn aswas and the .NET framework 3.0 - same code, different choice of when to make the decisions. so decisions are made about the units of work, but not the entire design, and how it will all fit together - that way there *is* a bias to action, but also a bias to delivering something users want and need, rather than something you and they hoped they did 18 months ago... decisions are implementation decisions, and as such should be put off until something is implemented. requirements change over time. so should code. if you decide everything up front you might as well lay concrete on a set of formal requirements in a 50 page Word document. nope. cote i think you got it right, its just that the point is counterintuitive. the fact is requirements will change- which is why you want just in time decision-making. you don’t make a bunch of decisions and expect them to be set in stone. compare and contrast Longhorn aswas and the .NET framework 3.0 - same code, different choice of when to make the decisions. so decisions are made about the units of work, but not the entire design, and how it will all fit together - that way there *is* a bias to action, but also a bias to delivering something users want and need, rather than something you and they hoped they did 18 months ago…

decisions are implementation decisions, and as such should be put off until something is implemented.

requirements change over time. so should code. if you decide everything up front you might as well lay concrete on a set of formal requirements in a 50 page Word document.

]]> By: Cote' http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-663 Cote' Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:24:11 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-663 I think #4 could use some re-wording them. I'll have to go re-listen to <a href="http://agiletoolkit.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=121123" rel="nofollow">the above</a> and re-read the relevent stuff in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Implementing-Lean-Software-Development-Addison-Wesley/dp/0321437381/sr=8-1/qid=1165443717/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-5760324-4239816?ie=UTF8&s=books" rel="nofollow"><i>Implementing Lean Software Development</i></a> to see how they do the rhetoric to get the point right. The idea is supposed to be that having more than one option is more valuable than having just one option (or no options). So, you want structure things to allow for that. But, yes, the wording might be <i>too</i> counter-intutive ;> I think #4 could use some re-wording them. I’ll have to go re-listen to the above and re-read the relevent stuff in Implementing Lean Software Development to see how they do the rhetoric to get the point right.
The idea is supposed to be that having more than one option is more valuable than having just one option (or no options). So, you want structure things to allow for that. But, yes, the wording might be too counter-intutive ;>

]]> By: Andre Charland http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-662 Andre Charland Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:17:40 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-662 ya on #4, seems to me it's a slippery slope to "paralysis by analysis". Maybe I'm missing the point to thought. I kinda like the concept of a bias towards action, make decisions with the information available knowing that mistakes will be made, and code will have to be re-factored later. Am I way off base? ya on #4, seems to me it’s a slippery slope to “paralysis by analysis”. Maybe I’m missing the point to thought. I kinda like the concept of a bias towards action, make decisions with the information available knowing that mistakes will be made, and code will have to be re-factored later. Am I way off base?

]]> By: leisa http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-661 leisa Wed, 06 Dec 2006 10:04:57 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-661 yeah, I was still nodding from 5-9. I understand what you mean by no. 4 now, but still not loving the wording. my experience of companies leaving decisions as long as possible is certainly not an agile one... for me it's more about having the right information to make the decision or being proactive rather than reactive about decision making... nice list tho' :) yeah, I was still nodding from 5-9.

I understand what you mean by no. 4 now, but still not loving the wording.

my experience of companies leaving decisions as long as possible is certainly not an agile one… for me it’s more about having the right information to make the decision or being proactive rather than reactive about decision making…

nice list tho’ :)

]]> By: Roger L. Cauvin http://www.redmonk.com/cote/2006/12/05/the-smells-of-agile/#comment-660 Roger L. Cauvin Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:41:05 +0000 http://www.redmonk.com/cote/wp/?p=508#comment-660 You touch on it in #3, but I think it would be worth breaking out a separate "smell": 10. An agile organization interacts with customers and revisits requirements on an ongoing basis. A fundamental part of agile development is avoiding <a href="http://cauvin.blogspot.com/2005/09/bufr.html" rel="nofollow">BUFR</a>. You touch on it in #3, but I think it would be worth breaking out a separate “smell”:

10. An agile organization interacts with customers and revisits requirements on an ongoing basis.

A fundamental part of agile development is avoiding BUFR.

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